Category Archives: Week 4

Medea and Job

1. The beginnings of their journey through their stories seem quite similar. They are both treated unfairly, Medea is left for another woman, while Achilles had his “prize” taken away. They also both  made deals with themselves that if a particular thing went their way that they would help those that needed their intervention. Achilles’s deal was that is he was given gifts, then he would help the Greeks win the war. Medea made a deal with her ex that if his wife allowed her children to remain in the land they were living in, then all would be forgive. The last thing that the two characters have in common in ther plotlines is that they kill one of the people responsible for their hurt. For Medea that is the ew wife and for Achilles that would be Hector.

I would not consider Medea to be a hero in the sense of a hero being a person that brings hope and saves those in need of it. The only person that Medea helped was herself, although she did believe that her children were better off dying by her hand.

2. The reason that Job accepts God’s assertion is because Job was not asking the right question. He was asking the question on “why?” when he should have been asking what God was trying to teach him. It is impossible to refute the inconsequentiality of human knowledge when it is put against the infinite knowledge of God. Because of this is was not in Job’s abilities to comprehend God’s decisions and everything that underlies those decisions. Job was underestimating God’s greatness and questioning his wisdom. Another thing that Job gained from the experience besides a deeper understanding of who God is, is that he was motivated to pray and in turn grew spiritually. It was not up to Job whether to suffer or not, but it was up to him to put his complete, unaltered faith in God’s command.

I do find the end to this dialogue satisfactory, because, as a Christian, it is a good reminder that I am not ultimately in control, and when I am feeling helpless that is when I need to turn to God and give him all, even though that is when it is the hardest. It’s very hard to not misrepresent God and to see him as a being with flaws, but as Job is told, God is a being with infinite wisdom and understanding. This is such an easy thing to forget and Job is a great book to be reminded of that.

Madea and Job

When comparing Medea to Achilles they have a lot of similarities. Both characters show they are not in control of their emotions, but that their emotions are in control of them. In the Iliad Achilles refuses to fight, blinded by spite, putting everyone he cares about in harm’s way and committing sacrilege by desecrating Hectors body. This blind rage is very much apparent in Medea. When Jason abandon’s her she is so consumed by her anger she cannot even stand the sight of her own children, ultimately sacrificing them to cause Jason pain.  Jason’s abandonment of his family sends Medea into a self-destructive spiral, but I still believe that Medea does show aspects of a hero. Throughout the story the decision to murder her own children hangs deeply on Medea. It’s not until half way through the story when conversing with the chorus that Medea decides to let her emotions lead her actions, and follow through with her plot. This transformation, as horrendous as it is, shows that Medea is not who she was at the start of the play. Medea has changed, her family isn’t important anymore. What was important to Medea is showing Jason she would not stand to be treated in such a way. Medea wants to show Jason that she can be as cruel to Jason, as Jason was cruel to her when he left her. I believe that Medea is a hero because she’s trying to change a social norm that should not be accepted; the fact that it’s socially okay for Jason to abandon his family to exile for a new wife is not okay and Medea will stand up for that inequality. In the play I believe Medea goes to such extremes because it’s supposed to show the audience that when you’re not in control of your emotions even a noble cause like social equality can turn to devilish intent.

I believe Job accepts Gods answer because he understands how un-important his own question is before God. Job cannot even begin to comprehend the divine power of God. So how could God reason his thoughts to Job? Job has learned everything he needs to, and his faith has been reaffirmed by the mere presence of God. I was satisfied by the end of the dialogue. It reminds me of Gilgamesh. It’s not the reward that matters, but the journey. Job’s rewards may have been a prosperous life, but it was his journey that brought him together with God.

Madea & Job

1. Madea is a woman, but Euripides has presented her as a figure previously thought of as exclusively male- A hero. Analyze her character in the play with that of Achilles and conclude with a judgement on whether or not you think Madea is a hero and why.

First off anyone who kills their children can hardly be a hero… The story of Madea, is play so I understand the extreme things used in the  story to bring in emphasis a moral point. Although unlike Achilles, Madea could not get over her pride and she let her misfortune ruin her life. Rage does funny things to people, but Madea let it go to far. Achilles  was able to swallow his pride sandwich and recover. Medea could not. Madea is no hero, the opportunity was there for her to be a hero but, she would of had to forgiven Jason for leaving her. She could have came out stronger and still kept her kids might I add. Hero shes not…


2. Job makes the claim that his life has been virtuous and devoted to the worship of God and so he does not deserve the calamities that have befallen on him. He asks God for an answer, but the voice from the whirlwind does not deal with his question. Why does Job accept God’s assertion of divine power and not press for an answer to his question? Why is he satisfied with what he is given? Do you find the end of the dialogue satisfactory?

When bad things to us, I think we mostly all follow the same initial track as Job. We have our remorse and wonder why. We think that things will never get better and the world is sitting on us. However, Job is a hero. He proved it. Job rescued himself and kept his faith in God. Which was good, because Satan was trying to break Job. This is a story of a trial that Job went through to test his faith in God. I think Job accepts Gods reply in the whirlwind,  because he knows he doesn’t deserve a answer, God doesn’t have to answer to man. Its up to Job place his faith back into God. When Job regained his faith, his life suddenly turned around. His property doubled and had a new family. Job is a hero, because hero’s persevere.


Medea, Achilles, and Job


I’m having trouble examining Medea as a hero in a Campbell sense because in the era of Euripides, my mind keeps turning to Hero in the Tragic sense, the kind based on Aristotle’s Poetics. As a Tragic hero, she does not make sense (just as many of Euripides’s protagonists break Aristotle’s rules for Tragedy), she neither is a great man acting worse than low men, she does have a fatal flaw but she never realizes it and this makes it so the audience does not go through a moment of katharsis.

The Hero’s Journey also does not apply to Medea. Almost none of the steps happen to her. In fact, a lot of the steps are reversed. The mentor character actually discourages her instead of supporting her. Her supernatural aid doesn’t approve of her actions, to name a couple. I truly hate that this is the case, but she falls in line with the assertion that “women do not have journeys” they are already spiritually set, they care more about mothering. Medea, does not follow the definition of women – she doesn’t care about mothering – and she has no self-awareness in any spiritual sense. It’s almost as though she’s caught in limbo. She isn’t a woman and she isn’t a man. She can’t be comfortable not going on a journey and her hero’s journey is a twisted, backwards one.

Achilles does go on a Hero’s journey. I personally believe that if both people existed in the real world, they would both be despicable people. But from a literary standpoint, Achilles does go through a truncated hero’s journey. He skips a few steps, but his manslaughter through negligence of his fellow soldiers is almost justified by his pursuit of Honor. (I’m tempted to make this symmetrical and try to apply Aristotle, but that concept of Tragedy relies on having a live audience, so it would be too much of a stretch.)

Achilles is a Hero and Medea is not, as far as the Hero’s Journey is concerned. As far as my personal opinion on it, neither did anything heroic.


Job is satisfied with God’s assertion of divine power because first of all, proof of God’s existence is enough to confirm Job’s view that he should accept what is given to him by God. Secondly, his belief that God’s reasoning is beyond what he can and should understand as human is reaffirmed by the whirlwind not dealing with his question at all. The point of the story seems to be that once he learns not to ask questions, he has learned his lesson.

I don’t find the end of the dialogue satisfactory at all. All God seems to be doing is being cruel and all he seems to be teaching is willful ignorance. I have no problem with organized religion or personal faith, it seems like both would be comforting. I personally am not satisfied with being told to accept things without question. I’m sure there are things beyond what we can as humans understand, but I don’t hold with the idea that there are things beyond what we should understand.

Medea and Job


1. Madea is a woman, but Euripides has presented her as a figure previously thought of as exclusively male–a hero. Analyze her character in the play with that of Achilles, and conclude with a judgement on whether or not you think Medea is a hero and why.

Like Achilles, Madea has supernatural ancestry and supernatural ability. They are both able to call upon their supernatural ancestry and supernatural abilities in the pursuit of preserving their own honor and defeating those they perceive as their enemies. I do think Medea is a hero because, after being the subject of the work she is victorious, even though she has experienced significant loss. I wouldn’t say she is noble or righteous in her actions. By our standards even the sense of revenge that fuels her murderous rage is sinful, but she states that things have been tragically unfair for her and she is going to do something about it, and she does. So that’s whats up in terms of how we are discussing heros in this class.

2. Job (in chapter 31) makes the claim that his life has been virtuous and devoted to the worship of God, and so he does not deserve the calamities that have fallen on him. He asks God for an answer, but the voice from the whirlwind does not deal with his question at all. Why does Job accept God’s assertion of divine power (42) and not press for an answer to his question? Why is he satisfied with what he is given? Do you find the end of the dialogue satisfactory?

I do not find the end of the dialogue between God and Job satisfactory at all, but that is because of my perspective on the whole matter which is a perspective trained to be in constant question and struggle with biblical issues and with what the Old Testament offers us. I do not find it satisfactory because God did not answer Job’s question truthfully, although he did answer the question indirectly by basically daring Job to continue to question God’s authority. Job accepts God’s assertion because of the powerful nature of it, a surely overwhelming encounter with the divine essentially saying, “there is so much you don’t know why in the world do you think you deserve to know this?”. I think Job, as a man who had faith before proof, hears what is being said and decides to step back into his place as a reverent servant. Pressing God for a better answer would be disrespectful, even more so than struggling with his plight before the encounter.

Madea, Old Testament

1) First off, my personal take on the Illiad was that I considered Hector to be the most heroic figure, more so that Achilles. Where Hector lacked was only in strength to beat Achilles. I think Achilles was a character who could be seen as being able to identify with what was right or wrong with particular circumstances which were occurring around him. While I believe Achilles acted most often out of favor with the will of the gods, he also showed a sense of empathy toward his foe when he identified with Hector’s father who came to his camp to retrieve Hector’s body. This empathy manifested itself in the temporary armistice between the Trojans and the Greeks that followed so the Trojan’s could mourn in peace for Hector’s loss.

I don’t really see this sense of mercy (even if it be partial or temporary as in the case of Achilles) with Madea and her actions. Madea acted I believe with the utmost of haste toward Jason for his actions in leaving her for another wife. And I do not particularly blame her, for her only other option was to become effectively destitute with her children after Kreon banished her from Corinth. This was a very serious implication for Madea, who had already burned the bridge with her native people prior to marrying Jason and bearing his children. Left with no other option but to obtain a sense of justice, she acted as she did and obtained the added blow of poisoning Kreon along with Jason’s new wife.

The only thing that was questionable in my mind is whether or not it was necessary to murder her children as well. Perhaps out of ignorance I ask this question, but I wonder if it would have been acceptable at the time to bring her children with her to her destination where she was to wed Aigeus and bear his children? But the idea is apparently a moot one, as Madea apparently was motivated by just one thing; to squash out any perceived plan by Jason to unite Madea’s and Kreon’s people by way of noble borne siblings. I see Madea as a woman who suffered an incredibly difficult situation; one where she was not going to sit idly and take this sort of treatment. Madea acted the only way she could, and for being powerless to do anything about her situation, she acted in the only way she could conjure. From the perspective of her own native people whom she already betrayed, her actions I feel redeemed her. And from that perspective, I consider her actions heroic.

2) Job accepts Yahweh’s response from the storm in the same way Hector thought to run from the mortal power of  Achilles in the opening portion of their battle. Yahweh challenged Job a number of times, stating as an affirmation of his power from the storm, “Is your [Job’s] arm as mighty as God’s? Does your voice thunder like His?” (147) To Yahweh’s displays of power all around Job, all Job could reply was “I see how little I am. I will not answer You. I am putting my hand to my lips: One time I spoke; I will not speak again: two times I spoke, and I will not go on.” Job later goes on after Yahweh issued his challenge of Job further, “I know that You are all-powerful, and that no plan is beyond You. ‘Who dares to speak hidden words with no sense?’ … I knew You, but only by rumor; my eye has beheld You today. I retract. I even take comfort for dust and ashes” (149-150).

The key take away from this exchange is not only Job’s humbling in front of God, but also the fact that he came to know God directly rather that what he knew or heard previously. Job was perhaps one of the few people in history that can make a legitimate claim to encounter God in matter of dialogue. For accepting his place in God’s way and recanting his position after being challenged and enlightened, Job was rewarded double what he had before. Job went on to live a very productive life. He was able to get over the loss of his kin as well, which was his only irreplaceable loss. This loss, while unfortunate, did not shatter his faith permanently after meeting God. For Job learned to accept whatever hand he is dealt in life without questioning or attempting to reason as to why. This is satisfying because it shows that faith can prove to be unshakeable at the whims of the “Accuser.”

Discussion week 4

1. Madea is a woman, but Euripides has presented her as a figure previously thought of as exclusively male–a hero. Analyze her character in the play with that of Achilles, and conclude with a judgement on whether or not you think Medea is a hero and why.

Medea became a very troubled and appalling character after finding her husband cheating on her with another woman. She was so induced with rage that she killed her own children as a form of revenge to get back at her husband. A hero would not act out of anger or revenge to get back at someone. A hero fights for a purpose that is selfless. In comparison with Achilles they were both very similar. They both were selfish in their actions, and fought to get ahead for themselves. Neither in my opinion can be classified as a hero.

2. Job (in chapter 31) makes the claim that his life has been virtuous and devoted to the worship of God, and so he does not deserve the calamities that have fallen on him. He asks God for an answer, but the voice from the whirlwind does not deal with his question at all. Why does Job accept God’s assertion of divine power (42) and not press for an answer to his question? Why is he satisfied with what he is given? Do you find the end of the dialogue satisfactory?

“Bad things happen to good people.’ No one deserves going through hardships but everyone does in some way or another. Job accepts God’s assertion of divine power and doesn’t press for an answer to his question because when he was given a response, that was enough of an answer for him. Job was given “proof’ and that is why he was satisfied with what he was given.

Medea and Job

I don’t think Medea is a hero because when she finds out her husband got married to another woman she doesn’t stay strong for her children. Instead, she freaks out and ends up killing them. I think that compared to Achilles they are similar in the way that they are both focused on getting themselves further or staying happy. They also are obviously not very considerate of other people’s feelings.


Even though Job did not like the answer or lack there of that God gave him, he accepted it because his whole life he had been faithful to God and he wasn’t going to stop just because it wasn’t the answer he was originally looking for. I think that Job was angry that bad things happened to him, because he felt like since he had followed all the “rules’ he believe he needed to in order for those things not to happen to him they still did. However, I think that after talking to God getting a response (period) is what made Job believe in his faith. I was satisfied with the end because I think it spoke highly of Job’s character that he accepted the answer God gave him, even though it wasn’t what he was looking for at first.

Medea & Jobs

Medea was far and way a horrendous person, willingly killing her two kids should take the cake. To me she resembles someone like Satan. She is without a doubt not a hero in my eyes mainly for the soul reason of her disloyal act of killing her own children. She had many thoughts and plans of revenge on many people that makes this decision even easier to make. Looking at Achilles compared to Medea, I feel that they compare in some aspects but not all. Achilles may have done some selfish acts but they were generally in regards to protect his people. Achilles may have been a hero to his people because he was a tremendous warrior but a hero is someone who does good things for a group and I do not see that in Medea. She seems to be all about revenge and that’s not what hero’s are all about.

Job was a God obeying man. He was faithful to God even through all the events that Satan brought up. He believed in God and never lost faith in him. After many questions God reminds Jobs to never lose trust in him.  God then tells Jobs that everything he does is for a reason and everything he does must be done well because he is always watching. I believe that the dialogue is satisfactory, just like Jobs I feel that everything happens for a reason and keeping faith will only help you work through it.

Medea and The Hebrew Bible

1.   Medea and Achilles shared two of the common reasons for humans to become inhumane, the feeling of being dishonored or betrayed, and the feeling to have a right to defend their own honor through vengeance.  Today, this feelings are very common among humans, often succumbing to commit immoral acts.  Medea was betrayed by her husband, after she saved his life several times through his journey to get the “Golden Fleece’, so he could claim his right to the kingdom.  She betrayed her own country and her father, and killed Pelias, Jason’s opponent to the throne, just  to help Jason, because she was in loved with him.    Medea made Jason, the hero he was.  For that reason, and because she was a foreigner in that country, with nowhere to go and fully aware of all the enemies she made for his cause, she felt her honor and pride were greatly destroyed, as well as, her life.  Achilles honor and pride were hurt when the king Agamemnon took his price.  Achilles was a great warrior that won every battle and put his life in danger for the king’s caprice.   Therefore, his honor was all he had.  Both, Achilles and Medea valued their pride and honor more than anything else.  Achilles refused to fight for his country, friends and the family of his friends, which costs the life of his beloved friend.    Medea valued her pride and honor more than her own children. Both, put the meaning of their life in pride and what they thought it was honor.  The difference between Achilles and Medea is that Achilles came to his sense when he felt remorse  after his friend Patroclus died, and ended up fighting the war in his name.   Medea, on the other hand,  did not felt any remorse.  For Medea, her cause was all it mattered.  For this reason, I don’t think Medea is a hero.  A hero is someone who will choose others before themselves.  To a hero, the meaning of their life reside in being humane, their love for humanity and compassion.  To me, Medea was just a selfish women, full of hatred and bitterness that thought her life was more important and deserved better than even her own children.  For that, she became something else, because I refuse to think that is human.

2.   Job is a representation of the humanity, for which the sufferings in life seems to happen for no reason. The Accuser tries to question the love of the humanity for God, by telling God that the only reason Job praised God was because of all the prosperity that was given to him by God, but if all that was taken away from Job, then for sure he would betrayed God.  God did answer Job.  God’s questions were a form of bringing Job into reasoning in that Job was of no position to judge God.  Even Job understood what God was saying when he stated:

“I know that You are all-powerful,

and that no plan is beyond You.

Who dares to speak hidden words with no sense?

I see that I spoke with no wisdom

of things beyond me I did not know.’

God was saying that his plans, as well as his power and wisdom, were beyond humanity’s comprehension because he is the creator of all.  Therefore, Job understood that it did not made sense to question something beyond his comprehension and that he was of better position to simply trust God by accepting God’s sovereignty.  Job’s position changed after God spoke to him.  Job’s position was not anymore of protest, but of humbleness when he stated:

“I knew You, but only by rumor;

my eye has beheld You today.

I retract.  I even take comfort

for dust and ashes.’

For this reason, Job was satisfied for what he was given.  I found the dialogue satisfactory because this story is one of the many stories in the bible that portrays God’s message, in that just actions must not be done with the purpose of obtaining something, because what matters to God is that just actions are performed with good intentions in the heart .  God praised Job and gave him doublings of everything because Job proved his love to God.  What a slap to the Accusers face to know that humanity loves God because of who he is and not because of what they can get from him!